future of ka-Map

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future of ka-Map

pagameba
Hi,

just wondering what, if anything, people are planning to do with ka-
Map these days.  I have a feeling that most developer efforts are, in  
fact, going into OpenLayers.  However, ka-Map has a few features that  
are appealing to some folks and are not served by OpenLayers:

1) server-side configuration without changing the client side
2) written in php
3) tile creation/management

I think it may be useful to pull out portions of ka-Map's server side  
stuff, clean it up and add some new features, and provide more direct  
support for OpenLayers.  I'm not entirely sure what this would look  
like but it may be something like:

* a php-based configuration file similar to the existing config.php  
for specifying various options and identifying maps and tile caches
* a php-based tile engine similar to the existing tile.php for  
dynamically serving tiles from a cache and rendering them as necessary
* a php-based tool that returns javascript or json to the client with  
an appropriately configured layer(s) (all the settings for the layer  
are taken from the configuration of the cache and other settings)
* a client-side way of using the javascript or json from the server-
side - could be as simple as including a script tag after  
OpenLayers.js or an entirely new Control or add-in for OpenLayers.

This would focus efforts on improving tile.php rendering, tile  
management tools such as precache.php, and cleaning up that code while  
leaving the javascript stuff to OpenLayers.

Comments?

__________________________________________

    Paul Spencer
    Chief Technology Officer
    DM Solutions Group Inc
    http://www.dmsolutions.ca/

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Re: future of ka-Map

SamHiatt
Hi Paul!

I thought I remembered seeing this subject line a few months ago...

I just wanted to quickly reply to let y'all know how I've been using ka-map lately. 

Because I already had a prototype system running on ka-map, when I completed implementing our custom WMS / WCS, I found it to be rather convenient to use the same user interface, but to use wmsLayer.js instead, adding some modifications to make it work with a TIME parameter.  Because my tiles were coming from a separate WMS, I was able to bypass the php tiling system and I ended up with a pure javascript client.

In retrospect, I would probably use MapBuilder  / OpenLayers for building my web GUI... but what I have now is working out alright.  As soon as I have everything cleaned up, and when my system is running on a public server I'll be happy to share the code.

Thanks for initiating this discussion (again)!

Sam



On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 6:53 AM, Paul Spencer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

just wondering what, if anything, people are planning to do with ka-Map these days.  I have a feeling that most developer efforts are, in fact, going into OpenLayers.  However, ka-Map has a few features that are appealing to some folks and are not served by OpenLayers:

1) server-side configuration without changing the client side
2) written in php
3) tile creation/management

I think it may be useful to pull out portions of ka-Map's server side stuff, clean it up and add some new features, and provide more direct support for OpenLayers.  I'm not entirely sure what this would look like but it may be something like:

* a php-based configuration file similar to the existing config.php for specifying various options and identifying maps and tile caches
* a php-based tile engine similar to the existing tile.php for dynamically serving tiles from a cache and rendering them as necessary
* a php-based tool that returns javascript or json to the client with an appropriately configured layer(s) (all the settings for the layer are taken from the configuration of the cache and other settings)
* a client-side way of using the javascript or json from the server-side - could be as simple as including a script tag after OpenLayers.js or an entirely new Control or add-in for OpenLayers.

This would focus efforts on improving tile.php rendering, tile management tools such as precache.php, and cleaning up that code while leaving the javascript stuff to OpenLayers.

Comments?

__________________________________________

  Paul Spencer
  Chief Technology Officer
  DM Solutions Group Inc
  http://www.dmsolutions.ca/

_______________________________________________
ka-Map-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/ka-map-dev


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Re: future of ka-Map

Lorenzo Becchi
In reply to this post by pagameba
Paul, you're comments arrive just in time.
I've planned to spend my participation at the OSGeo Hacking Event [1]
over ka-Map code and OL integration.


Paul Spencer wrote:

>
> * a php-based configuration file similar to the existing config.php for
> specifying various options and identifying maps and tile caches

if I'll be alone at the the Hacking Event I will not touch config.php

> * a php-based tile engine similar to the existing tile.php for
> dynamically serving tiles from a cache and rendering them as necessary

what changes would you like to do to tile.php?

> * a php-based tool that returns javascript or json to the client with an
> appropriately configured layer(s) (all the settings for the layer are
> taken from the configuration of the cache and other settings)


I was thinking to use OWS Context with an extension for the ka-Map
layer. Another idea is the OLON object but has never come to be included
in OL trunk. Both XML and JSON output can be easily offered.

> * a client-side way of using the javascript or json from the server-side
> - could be as simple as including a script tag after OpenLayers.js or an
> entirely new Control or add-in for OpenLayers.

I still don't know what's the direction I want to take but I've thought
to both solution.
The Control could help at least to manage the multiple-maps
configuration. Then the Legend should be adapted in a separate Control
to let the people choose which layerSwitcher to use. I've already wrote
a new legend control for OL and it should not take too much time to
clean it and adapt it to ka-map.
I was even thinking to offer the integration in ka-Explorer, depending
on the time I'll have available.
If we'll refine the architectural part together before the Hacking Event
I'll have more time to code.

>
> This would focus efforts on improving tile.php rendering, tile
> management tools such as precache.php, and cleaning up that code while
> leaving the javascript stuff to OpenLayers.
>

I do agree.

ciao
Lorenzo

[1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Hacking_event
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Re: future of ka-Map

pagameba
:)

On 7-May-08, at 7:59 PM, Lorenzo Becchi wrote:

> Paul, you're comments arrive just in time.
> I've planned to spend my participation at the OSGeo Hacking Event  
> [1] over ka-Map code and OL integration.
>
>
> Paul Spencer wrote:
>
>> * a php-based configuration file similar to the existing config.php  
>> for specifying various options and identifying maps and tile caches
>
> if I'll be alone at the the Hacking Event I will not touch config.php
>
>> * a php-based tile engine similar to the existing tile.php for  
>> dynamically serving tiles from a cache and rendering them as  
>> necessary
>
> what changes would you like to do to tile.php?

nothing substantial I guess, but there was some discussion around  
transparent tiles that got me thinking the code could be better  
organised perhaps.  Also it may be nice to make the directory depth  
configurable (we've added an extra level of meta directories to  
accommodate larger tile sets.

Also some work on cache management scripts would be nice:

* pre-generate specific areas of the cache at specific scales
* re-generate the cache based on tiles that are already in the cache  
when there is new data
* clean the cache to keep its size under control by removing least  
recently accessed tiles

>
>
>> * a php-based tool that returns javascript or json to the client  
>> with an appropriately configured layer(s) (all the settings for the  
>> layer are taken from the configuration of the cache and other  
>> settings)
>
>
> I was thinking to use OWS Context with an extension for the ka-Map  
> layer. Another idea is the OLON object but has never come to be  
> included in OL trunk. Both XML and JSON output can be easily offered.

I like OLON :) but I am not sure what the best option would be.  I'd  
like it to be something that you can point at a ka-Map php script of  
some sort and the layers just magically get added to a map.

>
>
>> * a client-side way of using the javascript or json from the server-
>> side - could be as simple as including a script tag after  
>> OpenLayers.js or an entirely new Control or add-in for OpenLayers.
>
> I still don't know what's the direction I want to take but I've  
> thought to both solution.
> The Control could help at least to manage the multiple-maps  
> configuration. Then the Legend should be adapted in a separate  
> Control to let the people choose which layerSwitcher to use. I've  
> already wrote a new legend control for OL and it should not take too  
> much time to clean it and adapt it to ka-map.
> I was even thinking to offer the integration in ka-Explorer,  
> depending on the time I'll have available.
> If we'll refine the architectural part together before the Hacking  
> Event I'll have more time to code.
>
>> This would focus efforts on improving tile.php rendering, tile  
>> management tools such as precache.php, and cleaning up that code  
>> while leaving the javascript stuff to OpenLayers.
>
> I do agree.
>
>
> ciao
> Lorenzo
>
> [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Hacking_event


__________________________________________

    Paul Spencer
    Chief Technology Officer
    DM Solutions Group Inc
    http://www.dmsolutions.ca/

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Re: future of ka-Map

Lorenzo Becchi

>>
>> what changes would you like to do to tile.php?
>
> nothing substantial I guess, but there was some discussion around
> transparent tiles that got me thinking the code could be better
> organised perhaps.  Also it may be nice to make the directory depth
> configurable (we've added an extra level of meta directories to
> accommodate larger tile sets.
>
> Also some work on cache management scripts would be nice:
>
> * pre-generate specific areas of the cache at specific scales
> * re-generate the cache based on tiles that are already in the cache
> when there is new data
> * clean the cache to keep its size under control by removing least
> recently accessed tiles
>

hmm, this is the part I'll try to skip
:-)
who has time for it?


>>
>>
>>> * a php-based tool that returns javascript or json to the client with
>>> an appropriately configured layer(s) (all the settings for the layer
>>> are taken from the configuration of the cache and other settings)
>>
>>
>> I was thinking to use OWS Context with an extension for the ka-Map
>> layer. Another idea is the OLON object but has never come to be
>> included in OL trunk. Both XML and JSON output can be easily offered.
>
> I like OLON :) but I am not sure what the best option would be.  I'd
> like it to be something that you can point at a ka-Map php script of
> some sort and the layers just magically get added to a map.
>

right, that's my dream too.
I'm not sure but I think that Tim Schaub has already inserted a OWS
parser indipendent from OLON. I have to check OL's Trac.
If not we can temporally use my OWS class to extend OL.

I would like to talk about the directories structure.
- how to include OL?
- downloading last published version and creating a dir structure like this?
ka-map/htdocs/openlayers/2.6/...
- what should happen when a new release of OL is published?
- how to deal with the huge amount of functions that OL offers?
- should we provide the FULL compiled (aka escaped) version? or the
entire code of the project? (thinking to debuggers)
- should we just provide 2-3 different flavored compiled files (minimal,
all-layers, vectorial-drawing, whatever...)?

more questions will come soon
:-)
Lorenzo
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Fwd: future of ka-Map

Pedro Simonetti
In reply to this post by pagameba
Hi Paul,

Sorry for the late response, I wish I had posted this before, but I was working in a rush.

I just want to add that I think this I great and important step in ka-Map development. As you pointed out, some of its features are very appealing for many developers, specially for those more confortable with PHP than Python.

I'm working in a project with ka-Map + OL, and we'll be working on it until december this year, so yes, I think ka-Map still a good choice for many people, and therefore making it easier to configure, customize, and/or integrate with other tools is something very bennefical to the ka-Map community. JSON support is also another cool feature.

I hear this news with a lot of enthusiasm, since I thought the ka-Map project was inactive, which is a shame. So, I'm very happy to see there will be more new stuff coming from ka-Map community!

I have a limited spare time, but I will try to stay tuned with you developers, and share insteresting things I found along the development of the project I'm working for.

My best wishes,

Pedro Simonetti.

2008/5/7 Paul Spencer <[hidden email]>:

Hi,

just wondering what, if anything, people are planning to do with ka-Map these days.  I have a feeling that most developer efforts are, in fact, going into OpenLayers.  However, ka-Map has a few features that are appealing to some folks and are not served by OpenLayers:

1) server-side configuration without changing the client side
2) written in php
3) tile creation/management

I think it may be useful to pull out portions of ka-Map's server side stuff, clean it up and add some new features, and provide more direct support for OpenLayers.  I'm not entirely sure what this would look like but it may be something like:

* a php-based configuration file similar to the existing config.php for specifying various options and identifying maps and tile caches
* a php-based tile engine similar to the existing tile.php for dynamically serving tiles from a cache and rendering them as necessary
* a php-based tool that returns javascript or json to the client with an appropriately configured layer(s) (all the settings for the layer are taken from the configuration of the cache and other settings)
* a client-side way of using the javascript or json from the server-side - could be as simple as including a script tag after OpenLayers.js or an entirely new Control or add-in for OpenLayers.

This would focus efforts on improving tile.php rendering, tile management tools such as precache.php, and cleaning up that code while leaving the javascript stuff to OpenLayers.

Comments?

__________________________________________

  Paul Spencer
  Chief Technology Officer
  DM Solutions Group Inc
  http://www.dmsolutions.ca/

_______________________________________________
ka-Map-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/ka-map-dev



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